From: on behalf of Ben Goertzel Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 6:03 PM To: Jeffrey Epstein Subject: Re: why not have the machine take iq tests

Sure thing -- will do tomorrow or Wednesday, thanks ;)

On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Jeffrey Epstein <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote:
> put toghetr a proposal
>
>
>

On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Ben Goertzel wrote:
>> Yeah... the child IQ tests would be a reasonable research focus....
>> I can see that making an AGI pass these tests would be
>> attention-grabbing in the media, and also scientifically compelling
>> to a certain subset of the community.
>>
>> I'd have to find a child psychologist willing to actually share some
>> specific test questions; they are cagey about supplying them online
>> or in books for some reason... I guess they don't want parents to
>> coach their tots on the specific questions ;p .... But that wouldn't
>> be too hard.
>>
>> Selmer Bringsjord, at RPI, has done some work making robots pass
>> vision and movement oriented IQ tests
>>
>>
>> http://www.rpi.edu/dept/NewsComm/Magazine/dec02/atrengselaer/atrengsse
>> laer5.html
>>
>> [Selmer is an interesting guy btw.... He is a rather good AI
>> researcher, mathematician and cognitive scientist -- yet also a
>> pretty hard-core Christian, who believes human-level AGI is
>> impossible because computers and robots don't have souls !! The
>> capability of the human mind to maintain fundamental contradictions,
>> yet still reason logically in closely related areas, is pretty
>> impressive...]
>>
>> But Selmer is taking an approach of especially engineering and tuning
>> a system just to pass each specific test.... To me, that is not very
>> interesting.... It's like taking a really dumb kid and spending
>> hundreds of hours coaching the kid on specific sorts of IQ questions
>> that you know he is going to be asked. The child IQ tests could be a
>> good objective for an AGI research project, but only if pursued in
>> the right spirit...

>>

<table><tr><th>&gt;&gt; Well ... let me know if you want to fund me and David Hanson to work</th></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; on making one of his robots pass the child IQ tests ;-/.... We</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; could put together a brief proposal in this direction fairly quickly I</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; would suppose. Robot-wise, this would actually just require a torso</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; with hands/arms and a head with eyes &amp; ears; we wouldn't need to worry</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; about locomotion. Al-wise, it's basically the same stuff I'm trying</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; to get done anyway, just a slightly different focus and a clearer</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; evaluation mechanism...</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; BTW I am back in the US again right now, due to a family emergency....</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; I could possibly come up to NY again later in the week if you want</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; to seriously pursue this possibility.... I'll probably be back in</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; Hong Kong by the weekend.</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; thx ;)</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; ben</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Jeffrey Epstein</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; &lt;jeevacation@gmail.com&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; wrote:</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt; it seems to me to be a more explicit well defined goal, you always</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt; ask</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt; what can i show you or others. I thinkg the ability to pass a</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; &gt; number of iq tests for children, would provide focus if not</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt; insight</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt; On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Ben Goertzel| wrote:</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Yeah, I have looked at this test before:</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wechsler_Preschool_and_Primary_Scale_</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of Intelligence</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Note that the test items often involve vision and action, not just</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; abstract puzzle solving...</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Making an OpenCog system do well on this test would be a great</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; objective for a research project....</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Or, even if that's not the explicit objective of the research, I</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; would imagine that after some more development is done, it will be</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; able to pass those tests automatically...</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; If an Al system first deals with these preschool/primary IQ</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; problems, and then moves on to the more advanced IQ problems --</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; THEN it will probably be able to deal with the more advanced IQ</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; problems in a more human-like, AGI-ish way, rather than just</td></tr></table>

» » solving them using very specialized techniques...

>> >>
>> >> -- Ben
>> >>

>> >> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Jeffrey Epstein <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > even iq tests for children. there are enough differnt types of tests making the sytem robust
>> >> >>

>> >> > On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Ben Goertzel wrote:
>> >> > > Hi,
>> >> > > That's certainly a natural question to ask...
>> >> > > I think one could engineer a system to do really well on current written IQ tests, with a couple years' focused work by a small team...
>> >> > > IQ tests are hard for people, because people do them using the same abilities they use to do other, more complex and useful tasks....
>> >> > > But just as folks have engineered specialized systems for chess and Jeopardy, one could engineer a special system for IQ tests...
>> >> > > For example, with rather modest effort, this group engineered a system that does well on specific portions of the standard IQ test
>> >> > > http://www.kurzweilai.net/computer-programs-that-ace-iq-tests
>> >> > > I believe a similar approach could be taken to each of the other portions of the IQ test.... Putting them together, one would then have a high-IQ AI system -- without much capability to do anything else...
>> >> > > The tests used to measure intelligence of preschoolers are a bit more interesting to me, in the sense that they tend to involve intelligent engagement in the world, which is harder to "fake" ...
>> >> > > The bottom line is, though, IQ tests are moderately effective for humans because they are designed to exploit particular features of the human mind. It's hard for humans to pass IQ questions without being pretty generally intelligent, but the same wouldn't necessarily be true for AI minds...
>> >> > > -- Ben

>>>>>>

> >> >> On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Jeffrey Epstein <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=229ehewjdUk
> >> >> 
> >> >> --
> >> >> > ************************************
> >> >> > The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of Jeffrey Epstein Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> --
> >> >> Ben Goertzel, PhD
> >> >> 
> >> >> "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> --
> >> >> ************************************
> >> >> The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of Jeffrey Epstein Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> --
> >> >> Ben Goertzel, PhD
> >> >>

<table><tr><th>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche</th></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt;-
&gt;&gt;&gt; *********</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;&gt; The information contained in this communication is confidential,
&gt;&gt;&gt; may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside
&gt;&gt;&gt; information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It
&gt;&gt;&gt; is the property of Jeffrey Epstein Unauthorized use, disclosure or
&gt;&gt;&gt; copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly
&gt;&gt;&gt; prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this
&gt;&gt;&gt; communication in error, please notify us immediately by return
&gt;&gt;&gt; e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com, and destroy this
&gt;&gt;&gt; communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments.
&gt;&gt;&gt; copyright -all rights reserved</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;-</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt; <u>Ben Goertzel, PhD</u></td></tr><tr><td>&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche
&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>&gt;</td></tr><tr><td>*******</td></tr><tr><td>&gt; The information contained in this communication is confidential, may
&gt; be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and
&gt; is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of
&gt; Jeffrey Epstein Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this
&gt; communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be
&gt; unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please
&gt; notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to
&gt; jeevacation@gmail.com, and destroy this communication and all copies
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Ben Goertzel, PhD

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