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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

v. 

GHISLAINE MAXWELL,

Defendant.

x

20-cr-330 (AJN)

Voir Dire

New York, N.Y.
November 16, 2021
8:45 a.m.

x

Before: 
HON. ALISON J. NATHAN,

District Judge

## APPEARANCES

DAMIAN WILLIAMS
United States Attorney for the
Southern District of New York
BY: 

Assistant United States Attorneys

HADDON MORGAN AND FOREMAN
Attorneys for Defendant
BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA
CHRISTIAN R. EVERDELL
LAURA A. MENNINGER
-andBOBBI C. STERNHEIM
Attorney for Defendant
-andRENATO STABILE
Attorney for Defendant

Also Present:
Paralegal, U.S. Attorney's Office
CAMILLE DELGADO,
Paralegal, Haddon Morgan and Foreman

SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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(In open court)

(Case called)

THE DEPUTY CLERK: Counsel, please state your name for the record, starting with the government.

Good morning, your Honor.

and for the

government. Joining us at counsel table is Paralegal

Specialist Sunny Drescher.

THE COURT: Good morning, everyone.

For the defendant.

MS. STERNHEIM: Good morning, Judge Nathan. Bobbi C. Sternheim appearing at counsel table with Ghislaine Maxwell. Also are Laura Menninger, Jeffrey Pagliuca, Christian Everdell, and Renato Stabile is joining us today.

THE COURT: Please be seated.

We are here for the voir dire portion of the jury selection process. Jurors are being checked in by the jury department in the courtroom where they will wait to be called in one on one.

A few preliminary matters. We have prepared a binder to leave with the juror for purposes of the questioning. The first thing it has is a blank questionnaire. So to the extent I want to refer them to a specific question to inquire further, they can see what the question was on the blank questionnaire. I think that's Tab 1.

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3

Tab 2 has the list of names for the voir dire, including the names of the individuals who are permitted to testify anonymously. So as we have discussed, the jurors will look at this list of names and indicate by number if they recognize any of the names. If it's one of the witnesses for whom I have permitted to testify anonymously, we will take the discussion at sidebar. Otherwise they can discuss it in open court. I have labeled that list of names as Court Exhibit 2.

The next tab in the binder is Tab 3, which is the list of locations and entities, other than the employer name that we discussed separately. So I have removed that from this list. That's Tab 3, and I have marked it as Court Exhibit 3. And those are by letter. So if they have heard of any of entities and addresses, I don't see any reason why we can't discuss any of those in court.

Then the fourth tab, which I have marked as Court Exhibit 4, is the one that lists the specific employer that we can hand out to counsel. And it just says, Please answer yes or no only, don't state this out loud, do you have any specific familiarity? And as we discussed, if they do because it's identifying information of a witness to whom I have permitted to testify anonymously, we will take it at sidebar, as I discussed with Ms. Moe and Ms. Menninger yesterday.

In the juror questionnaire, which I said was Tab 1, we did put a blue tab at question 49, I think it is, which is the

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question that asks about any history of prior sexual abuse or assault, since that's the question that most frequently caused the jurors to indicate they wished to speak privately. If they have answered that question and didn't indicate they wish to speak privately, my intention is to turn to the blue tab and say, you have answered this question number 49, is there anything about that experience that would interfere with you being able to serve here fairly and impartially, based on what is presented in court and my instructions of law? And that may be enough depending on the response we get. To the extent there is follow-up, I will ask if they are comfortable speaking. If they are, we will proceed; and if not, we will do it at the sidebar.

Any questions about that process? No, thank you, your Honor.

MS. STERNHEIM: You mentioned question 49. 48 also is a similar question. Will you include that as well? THE COURT: Yes. Same point with respect to 48. Thank you.

So the only other thing to note, there is a juror who is coming back in the afternoon session who wrote a lengthy e-mail to the Court complaining about the process of getting into the courthouse for the completion of the voir dire because electronic devices were taken. That upset this juror. And it's a fairly lengthy e-mail complaining about treatment,

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calling it juror harassment at a certain point. What we will do is give both sides a copy of that e-mail. You can look at it and we can talk about it at the lunch break as to any I think I need to address it with the juror when they are being questioned to see if it's going to impact their ability to be here and be fair and the like, but if you have any specific requests with respect to that, I am happy to hear it. So my law clerk will hand out that copy to each side of that e-mail.

The report from the jury department is that we have all but five who were told to report for this morning. We know that two are on the way at least. So it may be that we are down three for the morning. We will give it a little bit more time. We need them all to arrive in order to play the video of the preliminary instructions and then we can get started.

Counsel, do you have other matters to take up while we wait for the process to get started?

Thank you.

Not from the government, your Honor.

MS. STERNHEIM: Nothing. Thank you.

THE COURT: I am going to just sit here for a moment while I try to get my computer logged in, and if we don't have everybody yet, I will step down.

We were informed by the jury department that one juror called and said they were not coming because of a doctor's

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appointment. That's number 27. That's one of the three unaccounted for I think.

So we have two jurors who are on the way. And we have one juror who is going to shift till tomorrow. That's Juror No. 27. That was the one that I said was not coming, but they are going to come tomorrow. There is one juror that the jury department cannot get ahold of, and that's Juror No. 32. So we are going to assume they are out for today at least. There are two jurors who are on the way. The jury department is going to show the video now to everyone else. When those two jurors arrive, they will reshow the video. But that may affect our order because the two are on their way, Juror No. 2 and Juror No. 13.

So with that they will show the video, and as soon as that's done, we will begin with Juror No. 7, I presume.

MR. EVERDELL: Your Honor, since we have a brief break, can I use the rest room before we begin? THE COURT: Yes.

I am going to sit here for the process. (Pause) THE COURT: OK. We will start. Juror No. 7 will be first.

(Juror present) THE COURT: Have a seat. Good morning, Juror No. 7. I am Judge Nathan. Nice to see you in person.

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I am going to ask you some follow-up questions and some additional questions from the questionnaire. There is a binder in front of you there. The first tab has the blank questionnaire, so if I am asking about a particular question and you want to remind yourself what the question is, you can look there.

Juror 7, as I instructed you, Ms. Maxwell is presumed innocent of all charges unless and until the government proves her guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Are you able to follow that instruction?

JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: I instructed you that until you are excused from this case, you may not consume any media of any kind, including social media, research the case or discuss it with anyone. Are you able to follow that instruction?

JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: Any concerns about that?

JUROR: No.

THE COURT: Since the time you have filled out the questionnaire, have you followed that instruction? JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: So this is the chance to tell me, have you consumed any social media or googled the case or discussed it with anyone? JUROR: No.

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THE COURT: You indicated that you're able to sit between November 29 and approximately January 25, is that accurate?

JUROR: Yes. THE COURT: You indicated in your questionnaire that you had heard previously about Mr. Epstein but not Ms. Maxwell, is that correct? JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: With respect to what you had heard about Mr. Epstein, have you formed any opinion about him that would interfere with your ability to be fair and impartial here? JUROR: No.

THE COURT: You can decide this case based on the facts and evidence presented in court and my instructions as to the law?

JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: You indicated that you were a juror previously, is that correct? JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: Without telling me the result that the jury came to, do you recall civil or criminal case? JUROR: I believe it was a civil case. THE COURT: About how long ago was that? JUROR: 2018.

THE COURT: Anything about that experience that would

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interfere with your ability to be fair and impartial here? JUROR: No.

THE COURT: Do you have any bias for or against any law enforcement, including the United States Department of Justice, U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District, the FBI or NYPD, any bias for or against that would interfere with your ability to be fair and impartial?

JUROR: No.

THE COURT: Do you have any bias for or against criminal defense attorneys that would make it difficult for you to be fair or impartial here?

JUROR: No.

THE COURT: Counsel, any follow-up questions?

MS. COMEY: No, thank you.

MR. PAGLIUCA: No, your Honor.

THE COURT: I am going to ask you a few questions about yourself now.

Juror No. 7, how old are you?

JUROR: 28.

THE COURT: Where do you live, in terms of the county? JUROR: In the Bronx.

THE COURT: Have you lived there for at least five

years?

JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: How far did you go in school?

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JUROR: I am actually on my way to finish my master's degree.

THE COURT: What are you studying?

JUROR: Public administration.

THE COURT: So you're a full-time student now or do you work as well?

JUROR: I work full time. I am currently not enrolled because of the vaccination status requirement, but I do plan on going back next semester.

THE COURT: What work are you doing now? JUROR: I work for the city. THE COURT: What kind of position do you hold? JUROR: Clerical 4. THE COURT: What is it? JUROR: Clerical 4. THE COURT: Clerical worker. How long have you been employed in that position? JUROR: This will be my fifth year. THE COURT: Any members of your household you live with that also work?

JUROR: For the city, yes. THE COURT: So you live with a partner or spouse? JUROR: My mother. THE COURT: Your mom works for the city as well? JUROR: Yes, she does.

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THE COURT: Anyone else in your household? JUROR: No. Besides my daughter. I'm sorry. THE COURT: She is not working yet. JUROR: No.

THE COURT: What newspapers or magazines do you typically read, if you do? JUROR: None.

THE COURT: What about websites?

JUROR: Typically none.

THE COURT: Post comments on any websites?

JUROR: No.

THE COURT: How about on social media?

JUROR: No.

THE COURT: Do you follow social media?

JUROR: Not necessarily, no.

THE COURT: Facebook?

JUROR: No.

THE COURT: Instagram?

JUROR: I have an Instagram account, but I don't

really use it.

THE COURT: Do you watch TV?

JUROR: Yes.

THE COURT: What kind of shows?

JUROR: ID Discovery, children networks for my

daughter.

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THE COURT: How about radio programs or podcasts? JUROR: No.

THE COURT: What are your hobbies? JUROR: School, work, I like to travel.

THE COURT: Setting this case aside, have you ever followed closely any criminal cases in the media? JUROR: No.

THE COURT: Are you a member of any clubs or organizations to which you contribute time or money? JUROR: No.

THE COURT: Juror No. 7, I have tried to direct your attention throughout the process today and with the questionnaire to possible reasons why you might not be able to sit as a fair and impartial juror. Apart from the questions I have asked, do you have the slightest doubt in your mind, for any reason whatsoever, that you would be able to serve consciously, fairly, and impartially in this case and to render a true and just verdict, without fear, favor, sympathy, or prejudice, and according to the law as I will explain it?

JUROR: No.

THE COURT: No doubt?

JUROR: No doubt.

THE COURT: Counsel, anything further?

MS. COMEY: No, thank you.

MR. PAGLIUCA: Your Honor, may we approach?

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(At the sidebar)

MR. PAGLIUCA: These are suggested follow-ups based on the juror's answers. One relates to her mother being an NYPD admin supervisor. And then the other relates to question 37, which was Mr. Epstein passing away in prison.

THE COURT: I won't do the first one because she indicated in the questionnaire that it wouldn't interfere with her ability to be fair and impartial, and I am not going to go over every question and ask the same thing.

Question 37, I asked her if she formed an opinion and if she could decide the case based on the facts and the law. So no.

Anything further?

(Continued on next page)

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MR. ROHRBACH: No, thank you.

MR. PAGLIUCA: No, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Juror No. 113, my law clerk is going to give you instructions as to the next step. Thank you very much for your time.

JUROR: Thank you.

(Juror No. 113 not present)

THE COURT: Okay. So we've qualified 27 jurors, which is because we moved too slowly and that's too bad, but we'll be more efficient tomorrow and hopefully not have the audio issue.

Juror No. 79, who was the one who was just -- I think somebody asked or suggested not bringing them back. I don't think the issues presented are a basis for a cause strike on work. They said if they're able to work during lunch breaks or any breaks. I do believe jurors will be able, as they can during COVID, to have in the jury room their devices, so that would be possible. So I think if they're well, we bring them back, okay? I can't remember who raised it, to be honest.

MR. PAGLIUCA: I raised the concern, your Honor, and I think it's just a confluence of all of these answers, and we have a bunch of unsures about fairness, and it seemed to me if somebody is not feeling well, can't make it here today, and there are all these other issues, it just, frankly, seems like a waste of time to bring them back, but it's certainly your call, your Honor.

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THE COURT: Ms. Moe? Your Honor, the government has no objection if the Court prefers to keep the juror out.

THE COURT: I'm fine with that. I mean, there are a number of things, and we'll communicate to them they don't need to come back.

Matters to take up? Yes, your Honor. Very briefly, I just wanted to clarify, after conferring with the court reporters, about the Court's intention with respect to sealing sidebars THE COURT: Yeah.

given the subject matter today.

THE COURT: So every time we spoke with a juror at sidebar, it was because they indicated a wish for privacy or otherwise necessary to protect the identity of any witnesses who would be testifying under a pseudonym, but primarily with jurors, it was to ensure forthcomingness and privacy as requested by them. So those portions should be sealed, will be sealed. As to our sidebars, I think we would need to look to see if there was any mention of identifying information with respect to witnesses who I've permitted to testify under a pseudonym or any privacy-related information that a juror asked to keep private. So we'll seal them for now, and I'll ask the parties to consider those portions as to what are appropriate 25 redactions and propose these to the Court.

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Thank you, your Honor. Much appreciated.

THE COURT: Anything else?

MS. MOE: Not from the government, your Honor. Thank

you.

MS. STERNHEIM: Nothing.

THE COURT: Okay. All right. We'll meet again at 8:30. The jurors who were here today who watched the video already, as soon as they arrive, we can start with them. So in whatever order they arrive, from 8:30 on, we'll discuss with them to keep moving quickly.

All right. Have a good night, everyone. Thank you. THE DEPUTY CLERK: All rise.

(Adjourned to November 17, 2021, 8:30 a.m.)

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