[00:01] And I know I would characterize originally anyway, Mr. Epstein's interested in because obviously former president.
[00:13] But I never saw him other than that, I saw him be friendly on the plane, but I never I don't believe I I don't recollect anyway ever seen him in any other context.
[00:29] I don't remember him at his house in New York.
[00:33] Like I said, I I don't believe he ever went to the island.
[00:36] I think that was just a that that was a story that.
[00:42] Do you know one way or the other whether their relationship continued without you, like when you kind of moved on past Mr. Epstein?
[00:54] I don't believe so.
[00:55] Why do you say that?
[00:57] You don't believe so?
[00:58] Because I don't think they had a relationship even when I was there.
[01:03] I was I President Clinton liked me and we got along terribly well.
[01:19] But I never saw that warmth or that that warmth, like how do you want to characterize it with Mr. Epstein and I said, I didn't see that.
[01:29] I didn't see any interest in.
[01:32] I didn't see President Clinton being interested in.
[01:36] He was just a rich guy with a plane.
[01:38] When when the Southern District of New York case kind of became public and there was a search warrant of Mr. Epstein's house, there was like a there was some sort of painting or picture Mr. Clinton in like a blue dress that had been signed.
[01:56] Did you know do you know where he got that picture or that painting?
[01:58] So first I saw it was in the press.
[02:01] So you never observed that in his um Brownstone.
[02:09] No.
[02:10] I thought it was hideous.
[02:12] What's that again?
[02:13] I thought it was hideous.
[02:19] And but you had never so you don't know sitting here today where Mr. Epson got it, the circumstance in which he got it.
[02:28] No.
[02:29] Um Do you know of any other gifts or paraphernalia or art or pictures that former President Clinton gave to Mr. Epson?
[02:47] Um no.
[02:48] I mean, did he maybe get him a gift?
[02:51] I don't know.
[02:52] I have no knowledge of that.
[02:57] And then going back to the topic we were talking about before our last break.
[03:07] What would you you said something yesterday the very beginning of our conversation um that when you first met Mr. Epstein um and you ultimately have sex with him that he had um I'll use the word erectile dysfunction but he had issues having sex.
[03:34] Um That's what he told me.
[03:36] That's what he told you.
[03:37] Okay.
[03:39] And um and then over the years you said at some point in the 90s you started taking testosterone.
[03:46] Yes.
[03:47] Well I don't know if it was in the 90s, I don't remember when he started but it it wasn't he had the patches.
[03:55] Testosterone patches.
[03:57] Oh, okay.
[03:58] Um dermal.
[04:00] Like on his arm?
[04:02] Yes.
[04:04] Okay.
[04:06] And then he was ridiculous because you shouldn't take more than one, but sometimes he had like I'm like, what are you doing?
[04:12] It's like unhealthy.
[04:14] Okay.
[04:15] Um From what you observed or saw, heard, um did he continue to have challenges sexually over the years or do you think that whatever he told you, whatever issue he told you he had was fixed?
[04:34] I think it was a lie.
[04:37] You think it's lying about what?
[04:40] About his erectile dysfunction.
[04:42] Oh.
[04:42] You mean, you never you don't think he ever had any issues, you think he just told you that.
[04:47] I that is what I believe today.
[04:49] Yes.
[04:50] Because given if any of the stories are true, he couldn't have had erectile dysfunction, the thing had a prior pistol for Christ sake.
[04:58] Well, that's well that's one of the reasons for my questions.
[05:00] I mean, you're right.
[05:02] I mean and again, we're we're we've talked about this a fair amount but um what did like the stories of of what Muses underage and overage have said about him is are, you know, and what he liked and what he demanded that they do, whether it's watching him masturbate or um pinching his nipples, you know, kind of things that that are um unusual.
[05:42] Um do you believe that?
[05:44] Like do you from what you saw and from what you observed and from what you did when your relationship with him, um is that true?
[05:52] I well the bulk of what I read he did not have sex.
[05:59] So that is consistent with what he told me actually.
[06:05] And his masturbating, that is also consistent with what I knew myself.
[06:13] And um I'm going to use a bad words.
[06:17] Please.
[06:17] You can use whatever words you need.
[06:19] Yes.
[06:20] Blow job.
[06:22] Okay.
[06:23] He like blow jobs.
[06:26] That I did observe and he didn't seem to have any erectile dysfunction for blow jobs, but sex he didn't have.
[06:33] So when I heard read the stories about the allegations of sexual rape, I find that challenging because that was not his modus operanda from my perspective.
[06:49] But when you read about um blow jobs, that does that that would be consistent with kind of what That would be consistent as would masturbation.
[06:59] Yes.
[07:01] Did you talk to Muses or women that were either he was in a relationship with or um who asked you about working with him?
[07:16] Did you tell them, yes, he likes blow jobs, yes, he'll masturbate in front of you.
[07:21] Like did you have conversations with any of those with women about what Mr. Epstein liked or what would make him happy or things like that?
[07:34] I don't have any memory of telling anybody about that.
[07:38] I think I may have joked, like saying, oh my god, you like like from a sex in the city scene that uh yeah he's but not I never instruct.
[07:51] The question you're asking me.
[07:52] Sorry.
[07:53] Let's just be clear.
[07:54] Did I ever instruct anyone how to pleasure Mr. Epstein?
[07:59] Your question.
[07:59] No.
[08:01] Um And you said this earlier, but I want to just you you kind of said it on on your own.
[08:06] I want to ask the question just so I make sure that there's no confusion.
[08:13] Um when when you over over the years, um Sorry, can I just Yes, yeah, of course.
[08:20] I I just want to say the idea that I would have to explain to a woman how to satisfy Mr. Epstein is patented.
[08:28] Sorry, because he clearly was able to explain himself.
[08:32] He didn't need an interlocutor to explain what he liked.
[08:38] He's been doing this obviously or this some version of this story his whole life and did not require any help from me.
[08:53] Then um so did you did did you ever observe him having sex with a Maseuse regular intercourse, not a blow job, nothing else where you either walked in or you were in the room?
[09:06] I never saw have seen have sex with any person.
[09:13] Um and so how about um oral sex?
[09:21] Did you ever observe a woman giving him oral sex with you were in the room or walked in or.
[09:32] I never I never saw anyone give Epstein a blow job.
[09:35] No.
[09:38] Um But you said earlier you you did see him masturbating in front of Muses.
[09:46] I don't know if I said that.
[09:48] I don't know.
[09:49] Okay, sorry.
[09:50] I don't want to let me ask a question.
[09:51] Sorry.
[09:52] No that's fair, that's fair.
[09:55] I I I said I saw him.
[09:59] I'm sure I saw him in a what some people could define as sexual context.
[10:08] Somebody could not have the clue or topless, I would say maybe.
[10:12] I I could say that.
[10:15] If I saw him having a masturbating when someone was like I don't recall that.
[10:23] I don't have a specific memory of it.
[10:25] But um I'm not I didn't say that.
[10:28] Okay.
[10:29] Okay, I understand.
[10:30] That's fair.
[10:31] Sorry, I'm not That's okay.
[10:33] Surely not trying to put words in your mouth.
[10:34] No, no.
[10:35] That that that's absolutely know what it's fine.
[10:38] So um um and you you said I think in passing, maybe not in passing yesterday about about you know, whether whether other people who travel with him would get massages or so that would I'm when I say that, I'm referring mostly to the island or potentially New Mexico.
[11:03] Um but also his Palm Beach residence or even in New York.
[11:06] Um Do you know can do you have a list of names in your head or um names that come to mind of of people that you know did get massages um when they were with Mr. Epstein.
[11:23] No.
[11:23] There's no list.
[11:25] There's no list of people getting massages.
[11:28] I don't have I can barely recall all the people I can barely recall I I struggle to recall actual people that I met.
[11:40] I may have met a long time I had even forgotten that about Mr. Kennedy or Rory brought it up yesterday.
[11:47] It just came to my mind now.
[11:49] So I don't have and there's no list.
[11:52] There was never a list.
[11:54] There was no or certainly none that I ever saw, none that I ever heard of, none that I ever witnessed, none that I There's no list.
[12:01] There's never been a list.
[12:03] And you never heard Mr. Epstein talk about such a list?
[12:06] Never.
[12:07] Um and he never heard Mr. Epstein suggest that he had some sort of control over somebody because of what he knew about what they had done or had photos of him.
[12:23] I never heard him no.
[12:24] I never heard him ask questions about that.
[12:27] I never heard him so I've been present many times with Mases.
[12:33] I'd never who presumably could or maybe did massage somebody.
[12:38] I'm I'm not saying whether they did I'm not I just in the I never heard him ask any question of any Maseuse who may have given a massage to a friend that was on the island or in Palm Beach or anywhere else for that any details about that massage.
[13:01] Like, does he have a funky foot?
[13:02] No, I never I never heard that like weird.
[13:08] And I think at one of the breaks today, your lawyer may have showed you um something that just came out in the paper.
[13:17] I think this morning or last night, a letter that you that that is attributed to you um associated with this birthday book from 2003 that we talked about um yesterday.
[13:36] Is did you see that letter?
[13:37] I did.
[13:37] Is that in fact just look like your handwriting or something you wrote?
[13:41] So I don't remember the letter.
[13:42] Okay.
[13:43] But it does look like my handwriting and it does look like my name and it looks like it could be real, but I have no memory of writing that and I I don't remember it at all.
[13:59] Do you remember what the birthday book as they're calling it would it like look like?
[14:04] Like how it was put together?
[14:05] I do.
[14:06] What what do you remember about it?
[14:08] I remember it.
[14:09] It was leather bound.
[14:11] I remember it being about yay big.
[14:14] It was big, right.
[14:16] So you're saying it looks like it's like over 12 in, 14, 15 in.
[14:19] Yes, it was like sort of like a folio size, I guess or something like that and like this.
[14:27] And it was brown and thick.
[14:29] That about this thick.
[14:31] Okay.
[14:32] And um So just so you so I understand.
[14:36] On heavy stock paper.
[14:39] Heavy stock paper like 14 inches high.
[14:43] That looks about right.
[14:44] And then around like well A4.
[14:47] A4 because it was done on heavy stock paper.
[14:52] But I can't remember if it was folio size paper or it could have just been A4.
[14:56] Oh, I see.
[14:57] So it could have just been letter size or it might have been legal size.
[15:00] Yes.
[15:01] Heavy stock paper Yes.
[15:03] And the so the the folks that submitted letters were given the sock paper or how were the letters or did you like glue or something the letters to the sock paper?
[15:14] Every which way.
[15:15] Some were given the paper and they did their own thing.
[15:18] Some would send me some scrap of paper and I would put it on the thing.
[15:22] Some I didn't get because they went straight to Epstein and I was just told to put them in, like I said.
[15:32] And how was it bound?
[15:33] It went to a professional binder who did it like a book that you'd see in the library.
[15:39] So like like the glue that keeps a a regular book, a novel that you would read together, it was bound that way?
[15:44] I got I believe so.
[15:46] I don't think it was stitched, but I don't remember.
[15:50] I mean it was professionally done by a professional bookbinder.
[15:56] And then after you presented it or after it was presented to him when he turned 50, did you see the leatherbound book?
[16:04] Did he keep it somewhere in particular?
[16:06] It was in his bookcase in 71st Street in Manhattan?
[16:13] In Manhattan.
[16:15] And did you see it over the years and until you stopped going to the Brownstone?
[16:22] I saw it.
[16:23] I know, I did see it because it was right behind his desk and after I stopped going, I don't know what happened to it.
[16:32] Um do you know do you remember being told or knowing where the book is now?
[16:40] No, but I when I received in discovery those pages, I assumed that it had been found when uh either New York or the island was searched and I assumed that the Southern District of New York had it.
[16:57] But I think you said yesterday, but just to go over it again in case you remember anything differently, you recall seeing some of the letters and discovery.
[17:07] I do.
[17:08] But you don't recall kind of seeing the leather book start to finish.
[17:14] No, but remember I didn't see all discovery because they were very clever about you know, I didn't receive all discovery period and um in fact, in fact, very important items were not given to me at all, including witness testimony from Grand jury.
[17:31] So whether so you don't know one way or the other where whether it was part of discovery.
[17:37] You just know that you didn't get it.
[17:39] It wasn't part of the discovery that was given to you.
[17:41] Correct.
[17:43] But I I I I'm absolutely sure that Southern District of New York hid very important pieces of evidence from me.
[17:53] Okay.
[17:55] Um And I assumed that they leaked it.
[17:59] Cuz where else would it be?
[18:03] If that's what it is.
[18:05] If it's true.
[18:08] Um Okay.
[18:11] So I've just so I put I'll say it to use I've talked a little bit your lawyer about it.
[18:18] Um I said to you yesterday um that the purpose of what we did yesterday and today was was exactly what we did, which is to have a conversation about about about Mr. Epstein and about you.
[18:35] And um I think it's it's very challenging to talk about everything we talked about in, you know, one and a half days or in in just a creative hours.
[18:49] So I I'll talk to to Mr. Marcus about kind of what we're going to do next if anything.
[18:56] Um there's no and I don't I'm not being um co or I I just I don't know yet.
[19:05] I I don't know.
[19:06] So we I have a lot of um we have a some work to do.
[19:13] Um we'll do it with your lawyers to to extent we have questions or follow up.
[19:17] Um and um this has been very helpful.
[19:22] I I I think it's it was you, you know, who who kind of said you wanted to talk but but it we we gladly accept it.
[19:33] So so I do appreciate you um being willing to meet with us um and and I I expect that we'll that we'll be in touch.
[19:46] Um soon.
[19:52] All right.
[19:53] Yeah.
[19:55] This concludes the recorded proffer interview of Miss Maxwell.
[20:02] The time is 12:05 p.m. on Friday, July 26th.
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