[00:00] I'm gonna ask if we put their name on the record here.
[00:02] Of course.
[00:03] Good morning.
[00:04] My name is assistant special agent in charge Spencer Horn of FBI New York.
[00:12] Today we're doing a proffer of Miss Maxwell.
[00:16] The date is July 24th and the time is 10:12 a.m.
[00:29] This interview is being recorded.
[00:37] And my name is Todd Blanche.
[00:39] I'm the deputy attorney General and um before we start formally asking questions of Miss Maxwell, I'm going to put on the record everybody that's in this room in addition to me.
[00:56] Um starting with you Diego.
[00:57] Diego Pestana, Associate Deputy Attorney General.
[01:00] And then you heard from special agent in charge Horn, um Mark Beard from the United States Marshall Services here as well.
[01:08] Um, and then David?
[01:09] Yes, this is David Oscar Marcus and I'm uh counsel for Glen Maxwell.
[01:19] My name is Leah Saffian and I'm counsel for Gilan Maxwell.
[01:24] My name is Melissa and I'm counsel for Gilan Maxwell.
[01:29] Go ahead.
[01:30] And I'm I'm Gilan Maxwell.
[01:37] Good morning, Miss Maxwell, how are you?
[01:38] Good morning, Mr.
[01:41] Um okay, so before we started recording, we met for a few minutes.
[01:46] So I introduced myself and we we chatted and now I told you that we were going on the record.
[01:51] And before we start asking questions, I know that you've been given by your lawyer, um a copy of what's called a proper agreement.
[02:03] And I just want to spend two minutes making sure that you understand um what what governs our conversation today.
[02:13] The most important part of this agreement is that this isn't a cooperation agreement, meaning that by you meeting with us today, we're really just meeting.
[02:24] I'm not promising to do anything.
[02:26] Um I'm not promising to ask Judge Nathan or any of the judges that's been assigned to your case to do anything.
[02:33] Um it we're just talking.
[02:36] And so that's the most important, important part of of this agreement.
[02:40] Um however, almost as important is the fact that um what this agreement does for you is it gives you protection.
[02:49] So what it means is that the government cannot use what you say today against you, um with some exceptions which we'll talk about in a minute.
[03:00] But whatever you talk about today, you have what's called immunity.
[03:04] So that means that the words that you say today, we cannot use against you in a case in chief if we were ever to bring one.
[03:10] Okay?
[03:11] Thank you.
[03:12] Oh there's exceptions to that.
[03:17] The most meaningful one of which is that if you say something today that's not true, that's a lie, um we can bring a prosecution against you for what's called um false statements.
[03:27] So, um I'm a federal officer.
[03:32] Um, I have several officers here, um the FBI is here and if if you lie to someone that's a like me or like um special agent Horn, um it's a crime.
[03:43] So you have to be truthful.
[03:45] The other exception to this that doesn't necessarily apply directly to you, but if there ever was a retrial in your case, or if there ever was a a criminal case, a future criminal case against you, and your lawyer or you said something different or took a position that's different than what you say today, um we can then cross-examine you or witness based upon what you say today.
[04:14] So it's a little bit nuanced, meaning I can't use what you say against you in our case and chief.
[04:20] However, if you were to testify or if your lawyer called a witness to testify and they said something that was totally different than what you say today, we could then cross-examine you or the witness and say, hey, do you remember when we met with Miss when we met with Miss Maxwell back in July of 2025, she told us and then say what she said.
[04:44] Okay?
[04:44] I understand.
[04:45] Okay.
[04:46] Um, other than that, you I I know you didn't have a lot of time this morning to meet with with um with Mr.
[04:53] Marcus.
[04:54] But did did you have a chance to go over this briefly with him?
[04:57] Um I did.
[04:58] Okay.
[04:58] All right, so I've already signed it as has special agent um Horn and Mr.
[05:07] Marcus signed it as well.
[05:08] So you got a pen?
[05:09] Please sign it right where it says clients.
[05:12] Yep.
[05:15] And I will provide a copy of this to to your lawyers so you guys have it.
[05:21] Okay, perfect.
[05:25] Thank you.
[05:27] So Miss Maxwell, um about a week and a half ago or two weeks ago, um do you see the light blinking on that?
[05:38] On that Sony.
[05:43] Yeah, there you see it.
[05:45] Okay, we're just confirming that it works and it does.
[05:47] Miss Maxwell, I guess about a week and a half or two weeks ago, Mr.
[05:53] Marcus reached out to me and said that that you wanted to speak with somebody from the government about not only your case, but about um everything that's been in the media and that's been publicized about um Mr.
[06:07] Epstein and your case.
[06:08] That is true and I did speak to him and I did uh ask him if did tell him that I waited to um talk to anyone because no one from government at any time ever in the system section of the case so dating back to the um early 2000s has ever spoken to me and indeed uh I believe ever reached out to me at any time to even speak to me and that includes up to when I was um indicted and prosecuted.
[06:56] Um I believe that I or I understand I should say rather that um my attorneys at the time did tell the government that I wanted to speak to them because I was very keen to with anyone so that I could tell or have them ask me any question.
[07:11] I've never had any problem um just to speak to anybody and I offered myself and I kept asking if they would meet because I could talk to them and um for whatever reason that was not happening.
[07:25] Okay.
[07:27] Um, I have questions that I want to ask you, but I'm not um if there's a path that or question that I'm not asking that you think should be asked, I'm invite you to volunteer.
[07:39] Um same thing goes to your lawyers.
[07:41] Um, just to start a little bit very briefly.
[07:46] Um, can you talk about when you first met Mr.
[07:53] Epstein.
[07:54] I know that goes back a while and just very generally talk about your relationship with Mr.
[08:00] Epstein from the time you met him all the way up until um until his death.
[08:07] Um, I uh met Mr.
[08:11] Epstein in 1991.
[08:17] Uh my I I'd never heard of him or met him before and um no one in my family had ever either.
[08:28] Uh, my father never knew him and I'll explain why that is the case.
[08:33] Um, I met What did you where did where did you meet him?
[08:36] Um, I had a girlfriend who I I was yeah, I moved to America briefly in uh well, I'd moved to America in 1990.
[08:52] Okay.
[08:53] Um, I well moved.
[08:54] This big word.
[08:55] I'd come to visit America in 1990.
[08:58] I had been um running my own company up until that time, which was a company called National corporate gifts.
[09:08] And um, I had also been working for my father at the time.
[09:12] I had multiple jobs when I was um in 1990, I was working with um a a new company of his, the new only newspaper that he was launching called the European and I was uh in charge of launching a um magazine to go with the and I was traveling at that time um from England to America uh because uh my father was looking to uh well, he'd also bought Mcmillan the uh publishing house and he had purchased the New York Daily News.
[09:58] And um it's true to say that my father always wanted me to come back, you know, full time and um that that's a much longer story.
[10:05] I don't think we need to go into it at this time.
[10:08] So, uh but I was always working with him.
[10:12] There was no escaping who as it were to to work for him.
[10:15] So in 1990 um I had come over to New York uh to help look at some of that.
[10:25] He was having some advertising issues with the New York Daily News and in fact um I met I may have met Donald Trump at that time because my father was friendly with him and um liked him very much and I think should be said that he also very much liked um Ivana because she was also from Czechoslovakia where my dad was from.
[10:50] So uh I don't I don't remember if I did meet him or not in 1990 with my dad but I knew that that's how I knew about um the Mr.
[10:58] Trump.
[10:59] And this was before you met This is before I met.
[11:01] Mr.
[11:02] Epstein, yes.
[11:03] All right.
[11:04] So I was already going backwards and forwards in America and then in um April of 1991, I came to New York uh I can't remember for what reason, what business reason, but there was a business something to do with my dad at that time.
[11:23] And a girlfriend of mine uh who an American um told me I I I've broken up with my long I've been engaged to you know the very long time boyfriend and we broken up which so I thought, you know, as new girlfriends do, I've got a guy for you to meet.
[11:39] And like, who is it?
[11:40] And she goes, um, it's he's been dating my sister, you'll love him, he's looking for a wife.
[11:45] I'm edging towards 30.
[11:47] I don't need to tell you guys that's a very important moment for a girl.
[11:50] So like think about important things.
[11:52] All right, sure, I'd be happy to.
[11:56] And um, so sometime in 1991, very early 1991, um I met him at his offices in uh Manhattan.
[12:09] And um I think the most memorable thing I can think about about this, he was wearing a tie which he didn't off gave me and had a giant tomato ketchup stain on it.
[12:18] So I was like, wow, okay.
[12:22] Oh, and that was how we met.
[12:25] Was your meeting at his office for you to meet him just personally or were you were you there for work related reasons?
[12:33] No, I knew nothing about.
[12:35] Okay.
[12:36] I he just invited me to come and have tea.
[12:39] And I was like, tea, that's English, okay, but what was unusual was in his offices.
[12:44] So I went to his offices and we met.
[12:47] And I found him very engaging and um that was that.
[12:51] So okay, so that's how you meet him.
[12:54] So and again, I don't want to spend a lot of time, you know, on on this particular issue, but what happened with your relationship over the years from the time you meet him in 1991, um up until the time he he passed away.
[13:09] Just give the highlights.
[13:10] Okay, the highlights.
[13:11] So um I I was looking for real estate for my dad to buy some and Ex told me that he was also looking to move from his apartment and would I help him?
[13:21] And I I sure I'm looking already.
[13:23] I could look for him.
[13:24] So that's how it started.
[13:26] And then in 1991 my father passed away and I returned to New York after that originally to come back and help with the family businesses, which was um Mcmillan.
[13:40] And then but the back of my father's passing hit the family and um oh, and we lost all our businesses and and my family thought that it would be best if I stayed in America because of the intensity, the press and the drama surrounding my father's death in England.
[13:59] So I stayed and um Epstein said, well, you can keep helping me and help me find that house and you can decorate the house and it gave me something to do.
[14:08] Were you in um a romantic relationship with him at this point or just friends?
[14:12] Just friends.
[14:13] And while we're just with respect to your father, there have been um multiple questions about whether he worked for any intelligence agency.
[14:27] Do you have any knowledge about that?
[14:30] Um, I think most certainly my father had a background in intelligence given because he was uh I think he said in the Second World War he was um British intelligence officer.
[14:44] Um, I think that my sort of belief is that once you've been an intelligence officer, you're kind of always it doesn't mean that you're formally employed.
[14:52] So I don't think my dad in any formal sense was a you know, employed by the any agency but when you are very significant businessman and politician as my father was, you meet with people all the time and you I guess trade business or ideas.
[15:15] I think if if that would fall under that definition, that's how I would think it now.
[15:18] Certainly, um I have no formal knowledge of anything specifically that he did in that thing, but if you're asking me if I thought that he did help people, the answer would be, yes, I did.
[15:28] Did your father and Mr.
[15:30] Epstein have a business relationship over the years?
[15:33] I know we're maybe jumping around a little bit.
[15:35] They never met.
[15:37] So as far as you know they never met?
[15:39] No, I I know they never met.
[15:41] Well how do you know they never met?
[15:42] Thank you.
[15:43] I just categorically know they never met.
[15:46] Well, because after um in 1991 before my father died, um he asked me uh if I'd met anybody interesting or whatever, you know, because I was still trying not to be sucked back into the family business.
[16:01] And I told him that I had met Mr.
[16:03] Epstein and the reason why I shared that I'd met Mr.
[16:05] Epstein because um I believed at that time that Epstein worked for Bear Stearns.
[16:10] And Bear Stearns was one of our banks and I knew that my father was friendly with both Jimmy Cane and with Ace Greenberg.
[16:21] So my dad came was actually in New York, I think.
[16:24] If I'm I may I don't think I had this conversation on the phone but I I'm honestly talking 30 years ago so I'm not sure, but um if I I maybe I told him this because I have I know that what my dad did, whether I saw it or whether he did it and told me later, I that I don't remember but um he called both Jimmy Kane and Ace Greenberg to ask if what sort of guy he was and was he even allowed to because um well.
[16:55] So uh he never so they never met.
[16:57] He didn't even know who.
[16:58] But they had they they knew some of the same people.
[17:01] Sounds like and certainly the Best Starns connection was something that that you that you knew that they had.
[17:06] Look well he never had a connection with Epstein.
[17:09] He had a connection with the bank.
[17:12] I mean Epstein, I'd never heard of him in New York family before and I certainly if my dad had known him, right, when I said who was, he didn't know who he was.
[17:21] So he rang Ace and he rang Jimmy to ask if it was okay that I even knew him.
[17:27] And I just want to explain um briefly why my father would even um do such.
[17:40] Um I've had um some interesting things that have happened in my life and uh one of them was to be uh found on a IRA kidnap and murder list.
[17:58] And so after that happens more than ever related.
[18:05] I don't know what you want to do all with all the horrible things in that thing but if you want the details of course I can.
[18:11] But um after that happened, my father wanted to put a lot of protection on me, obviously.
[18:19] And um I declined on the grounds that that would be a very life restricting events, you'll all and all enforcement.
[18:28] I know you'll understand this.
[18:30] And um so he had told me that I you know, go be taking my life in my own hands and whatever.
[18:39] And so I think after that event and several others where I have some crazy little things that one has, he was always quite protective of me.
[18:47] And so if I met somebody, he would try and um verify that they weren't, you know, going to do anything hideous and so in case you thought it was weird that he would call Jimmy and um Ace, it it made you know, you may think it is, but in my from my perspective, he was just because he was concerned I was in America alone and he had an opportunity to verify who this person was.
[19:16] And so I don't know if I've seen the room if not.
[19:17] I don't recall but I know that at some point, my father told me he's fine.
[19:22] You can see him.
[19:23] Yeah.
[19:23] He's safe.
[19:24] Okay.
[19:26] Well, okay.
[19:29] So we might come back and touch a little bit more on that at some point, but Yeah.
[19:33] I went down a rabbit hole for a minute.
[19:35] That's all right.
[19:35] I just wanted to.
[19:35] No, that's helpful.
[19:37] Thank you.
[19:37] So, okay, so you're you're now in the 90s and you're friends with Mr.
[19:45] Epstein, you're how decorating the house or the apartment.
[19:48] Um what what happens with your relationship again.
[19:53] I know we're talking about a 35 year time period or whatever, but to the extent you can kind of at a very high level talk about it.
[20:01] Something I think just full disclosure is the best way to go at this point.
[20:05] So in 1992 um I slept with him one time.
[20:12] And I was like, ooh, that's it.
[20:14] We're going to be dating because that's how I thought.
[20:17] And um then I kind of thought to myself in that moment like because if he slept with someone then dating them, that's the world I grew up.
[20:29] Um but that really what well, that's how I thought.
[20:32] And but we didn't sleep together again for I don't know, really significant period of time.
[20:39] And then I How many years or?
[20:44] Um I don't know if it's a year.
[20:46] I I feels long but maybe nine months.
[20:49] I mean a long time.
[20:50] Okay.
[20:52] Um, I just want to go back.
[20:53] So uh I had found um a house for him to rent in New York because he had asked me I've been looking on it for my father and I found one which was um a former Iranian embassy.
[21:09] I think it was.
[21:10] I think it belong to the Iranians or the Iraqis or one.
[21:13] Okay.
[21:15] And um I didn't know that he had any money but it was like I want to say it was $12,000 a month which seemed like fortune.
[21:25] And I said to him, so I found this house but I don't think you can afford it.
[21:28] ridiculous.
[21:30] Of course I think you rented it.
[21:33] And that house came with it was a big apartment house because it I think there was under secretary station or whatever it was.
[21:40] And I anyway, I put it back together with it was like the walls couldn't paint, they had to go back and they gave it back to the country that.
[21:48] So he had this house and I had um moved into a 10 foot by 10 foot apartment because all that stuff had been either lost or frozen or whatever.
[22:03] So he came at this moment of my life I was like freezing because I was just like everything was felt very similar to this moment if that makes any sense.
[22:15] Anyway, so but I had no key to his house.
[22:18] I had no free access to his house.
[22:22] And in the entire time that he lived there, which was probably until um the beginning of 1996, I never slept a single night at that house.
[22:34] Ever, not one.
[22:35] But you oh so you said a minute ago that well the first that you had um slept with him on one occasion and at the time you remember thinking, you know, that this meant you're in relationship but then it didn't you really were not in that type of relationship.
[22:52] Did that change over between 91 and 92 or whatever and and and years forward?
[22:58] Um, so I did travel with him a lot.
[23:01] So I would go to his houses in Palm Beach and what he only had the house actually in Palm.
[23:05] Oh no, that's not true.
[23:07] He had the house in Palm Beach and he had a house in uh Ohio.
[23:11] In where?
[23:12] Ohio.
[23:13] Okay.
[23:14] And he had the house in Ohio because of um his business relationship with uh Mr.
[23:22] Wexner.
[23:23] And he had a and I had to go and decorate and put that house together.
[23:29] When we traveled together, we um stayed in the same but not in the Right.
[23:37] Does that make sense?
[23:38] Go ahead.
[23:39] It's okay.
[23:40] Talk.
[23:42] So you you stayed so when you would travel to him to his houses in Palm Beach, Ohio, or even just traveling, if if if it was just traveling with him, you would um stay in the same bed, so sleep in the same bed with him.
[23:59] Yes.
[23:59] Okay.
[24:06] Epstein told me I did have a um heart condition.
[24:12] A what?
[24:13] Heart condition.
[24:14] Heart heart condition, okay.
[24:16] Which um meant that he didn't have intercourse a lot.
[24:25] Which suited me fine because I actually do have a medical condition which precludes um me having a lot of interest.
[24:37] So what what was your understanding of his heart condition and why that prevented him from having intercourse regular?
[24:50] I don't know.
[24:51] I mean, he liked other forms of uh sexual acts.
[24:59] Well, let's come back.
[25:00] We're we're going to obviously spend some time a lot of time on the actual conduct he was accused of.
[25:08] So we'll we'll come back to that.
[25:10] So pick up where you where you were talking about you traveling around with him.
[25:15] He rented the New York um former Iranian Iranian.
[25:21] Yeah.
[25:22] Until around 96.
[25:25] Um, that time you I believe you said that he was basically your life.
[25:30] Like you were with him pretty regularly.
[25:32] Well, I yeah.
[25:33] So I never was with him regularly.
[25:36] That is one of those misnomers.
[25:38] I mean at the beginning I didn't see him more often, but I worked at his office.
[25:41] So I would go to the office and I would see him and I would count in my head when I would see him.
[25:46] I would count that I would that be a day that I would see him.
[25:49] But I didn't I never ever stayed with him that night.
[25:52] I believe certainly until 93 or 94, what I didn't know was that I thought he was still with his actual girlfriend who was uh Eva Anderson.
[26:05] He became Eva.
[26:07] They've been together my understanding.
[26:12] I think about 10 years.
[26:13] I'm not sure but that's what I think, 10 years.
[26:17] And um, I had understood it from my girlfriend initially that they weren't together and um Epstein himself had told me that they were not together, but I don't I don't think that was true from what I know now.
[26:31] So they were still together up until I think 94 when at some point in that period time Eva met Glen and they got married.
[26:41] I think 94.
[26:42] I don't remember when they got married.
[26:44] But her um she was his best friend and his everything.
[26:52] He told me that he always wished that he had married her and had a child with her.
[26:57] And I know that they she was family for him for his whole life.
[27:01] And I think even I'm not sure if this is true but you guys will know if this is true or not when he came from back from Paris and New York off with him.
[27:10] I don't know if Eva was on the plane.
[27:12] Now I think that either I read it in the in the discovery that I received or I saw it somewhere, but even if she wasn't on the plane, there must have been some email communication where she was in Paris at the same time and going to fly back one or the other.
[27:29] I don't know which one is the correct version.
[27:32] But so they were still obviously very close and remained throughout you know.
[27:37] In fact he was still in love with her.
[27:40] And so I also know now which I didn't know at the time was that he saw lots of other women and I know that now because I can see I can see it from the flight logs and I know it now because I can see from the emails.
[27:57] So you know from the case.
[27:59] Yes from the Yes, I didn't know.
[28:02] I absolutely did not.
[28:04] So okay, so just you know we're going to spend time on everything you're talking about but just to kind of close out big picture your relationship.
[28:15] So we're now in the late 90s.
[28:18] Um continue on with again, staying high level to the extent you can about your relationship with him.
[28:25] Okay.
[28:25] So after so my responsibilities increased with each acquisition that he did and each new project.
[28:35] So um I believe the first thing that he purchased was um the ranch in in Mexico.
[28:43] Okay.
[28:44] And so what he had tasked me with upon to but I think that was purchased in 94 something.
[28:49] So he had tasked me one of the things that we did was visit in my mind I say every state, but it wouldn't have been every state but many states to go look at real estate and properties.
[29:00] And so I know we went to Montana.
[29:02] I know we went to Utah and it was to go look at really things.
[29:06] Can't be honest.
[29:07] And then I arranged for us to go to New Mexico and he just loved New Mexico and then um I don't remember how the ranch happened.
[29:17] I don't remember that now it's lost and then we ended up buying the ranch and I think became from well became from the governor bought the ranch and then I had to deal with that and dealing with that was quite exciting.
[29:36] I went the way that I viewed myself or the way that I think is the best way to explain how I view my role was as a general manager.
[29:43] Because each property to me is like a a hotel.
[29:46] So the ranch was very challenging because not only that but it had BLM land.
[29:51] So to maintain your BLM you had to have um cattle.
[29:57] And I love animals and so the first thing horses and so I wanted it you're going to have a ranch I like authenticity.
[30:05] So I thought if you should have if you're not going to have the things that make it special.
[30:08] So were you were you um paid by him along the way?
[30:13] So I I think I became salaried um at some point.
[30:18] I re I my memory is that I got paid 25,000 a year to begin with.
[30:25] That's my memory.
[30:26] I may be wrong.
[30:27] And then with each as as it became more obvious because I kept thinking I was going to have a home that home would be formed.
[30:36] And but it Did you and financially, you were not relying on him.
[30:4
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